where do i start?

[Technoprisoners]

Can any of the Geeks tell me where do i start when mapping. Do i start with timing and then onto fueling or the other way around. How do you determin how much you change the timing advance? obviously for the fueling you require a wideband sensor and set a target air fuel ratio. and is it ok to leave the low octane map the way it is as its a safe map?

Cheers
Tommy

[AndyF]

Tommy,
I tend to start with fuelling and then move onto ignition timing. I also tend to leave most of the cars fairly rich just to be on the safe side.

As for how much advance then you need to get a set of det cans so you can listen for when you start to get any knock etc. If you start to get knock then generally you've got too much advance although sometimes adding in an extra bit of fuel can cure very mild knock.

The low octane map I tend to leave as is unless you've been able to vastly modify the hi octane map, at which point I'll tend to copy the hi octane map and reduce every cell by 3 or 4 degrees to produce the lo octane map.

Hope that helps... no doubt other people will be along shortly to explain that the way I'm doing it is all wrong and I'll go away and cry :lol:

Andy

[Technoprisoners]

lol...thanks Andy . So can anyone tell me what is the best way of judging the air fuel ratio for each load cell. obviously you are aiming for in and around 12 but as you ae comming up the rev range it starts lean and gradually gets richer. is it just a case of reducing each cell by x amount untill you get where you want to be and then smooth it out after?

[AndyF]

In the later cars it's relatively easy because you can run the map tracing facility of evoscan and see which cells you are hitting and therefore change them accordingly to match whatever fuel 'curve' you want to follow.

On the early cars, at the moment there is no map trace facility available therefore it is a bit of geekery :smile: to determine where in the map you are hitting and what you need to change.

Andy

[Lee5]

Hi Tommy,

I do start with the fuel 1st but just to make sure there is fuel there to start with, I then get the timing spot on and then start to take fuel out I try to spool it at 12.6 and then dropping to 11.8 at the top, there are a few other things you can do to get the car to spool faster with the timing and fuel, add a bit here and take a bit there.

Also there is boost vs timing I can get more timing by dropping the boost at the top end and get more power so its not all about boost as well.

Det cans are the best, but the evoscan software is great at logging and as Andy said it will show you the cell areas you have hit, but with any map it does not just use that cell you have hit but it uses the other cells around it so the inputted number might not be the numbers you hit.

If and when you start just do some runs and logs and make very small changes to start with you will soon get the hang of it :)

Lee

[Technoprisoners]

that gives me a little more confidence...so if i start with a ralliart rom and lean each cell out a little at a time maybe .2 untill i reach my desired air fuel it should be ok

[Lee5]

Tommy,

What car/ecu do you have as you will need to make some changes if things like lean spool are on etc.

Lee

[Technoprisoners]

evo 6....i have a 7 ecu ready to go into her just a little scared to give it a go myself...as ive said a lot of this is new to me and im trying to get my head around it..there is a lot of new termanology to learn and all this talk of map tracing and stuff....im sure its easy enough once you get use to it...its just getting use to it is the problem and learning all the different functions of evoscan and ecuflash. im just looking for a good starting point to learn from

[AndyF]

Tommy,
Firstly just give it a go logging and doing runs. You can then post up some of the datalogs on here and people will talk you through what's happening in them so that you gain a better understanding. Then you can move onto making small changes.

Andy

[Technoprisoners]

fair play to yis lads :)

[Cossie1]

Before I touched the car, I installed the software on my desktop pc, and played around with some maps that I picked up from the net first.

This was so that I was used to how the software works.

And so I could see what the changes I made would do with the tables infront of me.

Once I had that sorted out, I connected my E7 ecu and then flashed in a ralliart map.

Datalogged it lots, and it seemed fine.

Then I put it on the rollers (as I didn't have an accurate wideband at the time) to check fueling, and they hooked up some det cans.

It was leanish in the mid range at 1.25bar and rich as a pig up top.

Finally I upped the boost to 1.65bar (on the rollers), and it was better in the midrange and still rich as hell at the top.

So I then got a wideband, and gradually leaned it out a touch, until I was happier, iirc it was around 10.2afr at the top and I leaned it to around 11.2.

Once I had my engine forged, I cheated a little, cos I went to see GrayW and got him to map the car for me twice, both times I would watch what he was doing with the black magic machine (laptop) and once finished I would have a copy of the before and after maps.

I could then go home, and compare the 2, and see what the differences were, and obviously I could feel on the road how different the car was in the rev range.

Then gradually, I started to tweak the maps, as I adjusted or changed things on the car.

Now for me, the timing is still a "strange" area, I only make very minor changes at a time, so I can see how the car reacts to each change.

Fuel maps I find quite straight forward now, as i've played with that alot more than the timing maps.

When I do map the car, I tend to do alot of datalogs per gear.

Usually I will go and do several low down 3rd gear pulls and go to the redline, starting a new datalog between each pull.
Then I will pull over and check the logs, make any adjustments, and then repeat this.

When I am happy with 3rd, I will do exactly the same with 4th, and 5th (well as much as I can in 5th, as I find the runway is a bit short ;)).

Once I am happy that the changes i've made suit the car, I will then go and ramp the car up through the gears (usually I ignore 1st, as it's through the revs so quick, you don't really get that much load anyhow), if it starts to pick up knock (which can be normal) then I will check the logs and adjust and then do more logs to make sure it's good.

I also tend to do it again, but going down through the box, to make sure that the engine is still happy with it.

Once I have a car thats running nicely (minor knock counts, and generally feeling good on the road), I then tend to spend a few days, messing with the maps, to smooth them out a bit, I try not to add in too much more timing, and tend to end up taking a little out, around the edges to keep it smooth.

I usually have a couple of maps with minor changes between them, and I will go through them all 1 at a time, datalogging as before, to make sure the car is happy still.

The fuel table, I find for me it works best if I turn off lean spool, before I start to tweak it. I tend to run it reasonably rich on spool up, as I was told doing this will allow you to use more timing during spool up, which helps to spool the car, and then lean it out as the rpm and boost rises.

My car tends to hit around 11 - 11.4 during spoolup, and holds around 12 - 12.2 through out the power band, just richening slightly at the top.

No idea if it's the right way to do it, but my car seems happy with it, and feels pretty good on the road, and surprisingly doesn't do to bad on a dyno considering it's road mapped.

[AndyF]

Interesting Russ as I tend to go the opposite way on spool up in that I run it lean in order to try and get the exhaust gases nice and hot to give them more energy for when they hit the turbo.

I tend to aim for high 12's on spool and then richen it up to mid 11's towards the top end. I know that I could run it leaner at the top but I don't bother because I'm a coward :lol:

Andy

[Cossie1]

Interesting Russ as I tend to go the opposite way on spool up in that I run it lean in order to try and get the exhaust gases nice and hot to give them more energy for when they hit the turbo.

I tend to aim for high 12's on spool and then richen it up to mid 11's towards the top end. I know that I could run it leaner at the top but I don't bother because I'm a coward :lol:

Andy

Most do, as it seems that most will leave lean spool switched on.

I'm not saying my way is right, but it works for me.

1 advantage of going the way I do (well I hope) is that because it runs richer during spool up, with a bit more timing in for good measure, the egt's should be lower.

I would hate to think what my egt's would be if I was to run lean spool and then hold it around 12 - 12.2 top end, and then add in pops and bangs.

Running it richer top end should allow more timing to be used, I guess.

Also I was told adding more fuel in during spoolup can help to reduce surge ?

[Technoprisoners]

oohh so much to learn...lol