How Many....

[antony@indigo-gt]

Was just thinking of a couple of things and thought I would ask

How many of you use Det cans and also do you log and map on your own or do you prefer to have someone drive and you then map as you go?

Also what did you find hardest about starting to map cars, I remember when I first started the hardest thing for me was finding a technique that allowed me to see what I needed and make the changes as required. I remember trying to do too much at once and found it alot better to concentrate at one area at a time. I started on PFC by the way.

[Cossie1]

I don't use det cans at the moment.

I use evoscan, and try to keep the knock counts as low as I can, whilst still making the car feel "right", if I get constant ks (knock sum) over 3, then I back it off.

As I have the tephra patch on my rom, I can set the cel to flash, if the knock is too high, so I know to back it straight off and check the log and trace the map to see where it's going wrong. I have my flashing cell set to 3 counts at 160% load (or above) which will flash the cel slow and set to 4 counts at 160% load (or above) which will flash the cell fast, it is set to 775ms too.

If I see a quick flash of a slow cel, then I won't react to it instantly, however if I get a flash of a slow or fast cel, I back off the throttle straight away.

I usually start with 3rd gear, and do several (as many as I feel I need), full thottle low down pulls to the rev line, and stop to check logs after each.

Make any adjustements required and recheck etc.

Once I am happy I will do the same in 4th.

Once I am happy that both 3rd and 5th are good, I will do the same with 5th (clutch allowing), and take it as far up the rev range as my private runway will allow ;)

Assuming everything is good in these 3 gears, I will then, do several full logs, going through the box, I usually ignore first, as i'm through that gear so quick anyway, and there is no major load in 1st.

So i'll ramp it up the gears, and then check logs, and then do the same again, up and down the gears.

If anything needs a tweak then I will do that, but normally it's not too bad.

Once I am happy with the way the logs (and cell) show the car to be running, I usually get it on a dyno and get them to listen for any knock.

I know I should use the det cans myself when tuning on the road, but the stock knock sensor is very good, and will pickup and react to stuff before my ears, and i've been told it can be dangourus to drive with det cans on too.

[AndyF]

I use my lovely 'home-made' det cans and I don't really have a chance to have someone with me when I'm mapping my own car therefore I have to log and map as I go.

The one advantage I have with the early evo logger is that it is compatible with a little Palm Pocket PC that I attach to my rollcage so that it is in line of sight when I'm driving. That way I can check the readings as I'm going so I can see if something isn't quite right etc...

With other peoples cars then I prefer to do it with someone else driving but the main problem I have is that I am a crap passenger and get travel sick really easily. I've had times when I've been mapping that I've had to ask people to pull over so I can get out and get some fresh air :lol:

As for what I found the hardest... I think, to be honest, it was just getting the confidence to go ahead and do it in the first place. As long as you only make small changes and log as much as you can as you go then IMO it's very hard to go horribly wrong.

Andy

[Cossie1]

Oh forgot to mention, the hardest thing for me (baring in mind that so far i've only really mapped my own car) was working out where to start with the timing.

Fueling is easy, as you can see on the wideband, what it's doing and then map trace it after, if you spotted something that isn't what it should be.

[antony@indigo-gt]

I now tend to use a driver when mapping as I need someone I can trust as you never know how good the customer is.

I personally watch a tracer on the map and listen to det on cans but also have the logs in the background.

[AndyF]

Ant,
Just picking up on Russ' point about using the std knock sensor. Have you ever had a case of where you picked up det on the 'cans' without the knock sensor readings going high?

I've not personally had that happen yet but I still use them just to be safe and I did do one car where the knock sensor was obviously kaputt as it was giving any readout no matter what timing was used!!

Andy

[antony@indigo-gt]

I get it quite a bit especially with the pfc, it is not hard det but you can hear a tinkling but when I check the readings they are low, I have had it a couple of times with Ecutek where I have have heard the onset but nothing in the log.

[mark_rs]

would anyone teach me how to map???

love to learn, and about time i did something about it, whats the best way of going about it, ive got a 7rs, and a 6gsr at hand, and just downloaded ecuflash....

so whats the next step

[huwjones]

Someone will have to explain these det cans to me sometime! All I can visualise at the moment is two baked bean tins, one in the engine bay and one next to your ear, connected by a piece of string! http://www.sp30.co.uk/images/smiles/laugh.gif

[jamie_v1]

Someone will have to explain these det cans to me sometime! All I can visualise at the moment is two baked bean tins, one in the engine bay and one next to your ear, connected by a piece of string! http://www.sp30.co.uk/images/smiles/laugh.gif

Det cans are used to listen for ignition det or knock as its sometimes known inside the engine whilst tuning it u can make a set quite cheaply and are worth every penny

Here is a link on how to make some

http://www.passionford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85339

[huwjones]

Holy shit! I wasn't far off! I was expecting to see something highly sophisticated like accelorometers attached to the engine!

You're not pulling my leg are you? http://www.sp30.co.uk/images/smiles/dunno.gif

[jamie_v1]

Holy shit! I wasn't far off! I was expecting to see something highly sophisticated like accelorometers attached to the engine!

You're not pulling my leg are you? http://www.sp30.co.uk/images/smiles/dunno.gif

U can get electronic one's phormula do a good range but for occasioal use home made ones are fine

http://www.phormula.co.uk/

[merlin]

Just work one parameter at a time.
Remember, your human, and male, so we can only officially do one thing at a time.

I use det cans, and my mate Adrian driving for preference, as he is totaly switched on to tuning, can drive to instructions (carefully/safely) and gets off the gas quickly on hearing det.

My det cans are electronic, home made. They use a pair of Peltor inductive loop headsets with a bnc connector in place of the coil/loop pickup. Four meters of screened-twisted pair wire to a dynamic mic attached to a large croc-clip, connects to the bnc connector. Easy. Dynamic mics are better than electret in this aplication, besides, they are good for picking bearing noise, lifters etc.

[Kes]

I use something similar to this...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Whisper-2000-Sound-Amplifier-Hearing-Interception-Aid_W0QQitemZ230307545903QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_3?hash=item230307545903&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1688%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318

It's not exactly the same as mine, but works the same way. Take the microphone out, use a couple of meters of screened cable to allow it to go under the bonnet, and mount it on a strong crocodile clip, then you can just clamp it on to the knock sensor on the engine.

[nikp]

I now tend to use a driver when mapping as I need someone I can trust as you never know how good the customer is.

I personally watch a tracer on the map and listen to det on cans but also have the logs in the background.

I know this is an old thread, but...

Should I take that as a compliment then ant that you wanted me to drive when we last mapped my car? Or did you not have anyone else available!! LOL

[antony@indigo-gt]

You were good :) felt safe enough when we were mapping

[evonut270]

will definatly agree that having a good driver is a must. i have touched cloth a few times and not at silly speeds either.
Fuelling as has been mentioned is generally easy to get right and can usually have it on the money after the first run,timing is where the time goes to get the car to pull cleanly with no flat spots.
I also think the hardest part is having the bottle to do it in the first place.

[AndyF]

I've had a few where I've refused to map them due to the driving style of people. When you're not confident that someone can put their foot down in a straight line then it shows the type of people buying Evos :D :D

Andy

[GrayW]

I've had a few where I've refused to map them due to the driving style of people. When you're not confident that someone can put their foot down in a straight line then it shows the type of people buying Evos :D :D

Andy

Think I know a couple of them:lol:

[antony@indigo-gt]

I had one guy not a bad driver but reckless, I said do a pull through 4th then back off and cruise as normal.

I looked up from the laptop and we were doing 150mph into the bend I wrote my Evo 7 off on, needless to say my arse was twitching.

[Lee5]

I have had a few that I think don't understand English I ask, when you come off the roundabout hold the revs at 2800rpm the do a full pull in 3rd then just cruise, 90% of them try to go round the roundabout like Seb Loeb they will then give it full beans coming out the corner and proceed to give it full beans in every gear.

I then ask did you not hear me, they then say well "thats how I was told you map a car" I then say and thats why I am doing your car not them because I know what I am doing, the other best ones are the ones that do know there left from right as well :lol:

Lee

[straightliner]

I do it myself which is long and laborious but i'm only ever making small tweaks not mapping from scratch.

Dont have det cans but have used these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Engine-Electronic-Stethoscope-Kit-AT414-/120649147642?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item1c173fe4fa electronic stethoscope on the car and I can hear det but at a much higher level than the ecu ie knock needs to be 8 or 9 at least before you can hear anything and then its easy to miss so I dont use them very often

[HermaN]

When doing my own car I drive and let the computer log in the background, then make small tweaks at a time.

When doing someone elses car I just have them driving and I'll have my head burried in the laptop.