FTO GPX Manual

[RichardB]

Hi Guys,
Could anyone take a look at this and create me a definition file for this, its for a 1997 Mitsubishi FTO GPX with a Manual Gearbox, Normally Aspriated. It should have the usual speed limiter of 184 and revlimit 8250(ish)

The chip on the board is a MH7202F more details
http://geekmapped.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2755&page=3

Thanks.

[evofan]

she's a 21660002 rom anyway, il take a further look when i get home from work later, be interesting to see how the ecu handles mivec (the real mivec:lol:)

[evofan]

ok ive been trying to start to play with this but i cant get ecuflash to see any XML i create or even try copying an existing one but renaming the file to match the rom

[RichardB]

I used the wizard to make a new rom then copied the contents of the v6galant xml (which is way off) into the new definition it created, as a starter for 10.

[RichardB]

Ive found what look like fuel maps and ignition maps at 1182B 118BB 11c07 11ccb

the axis are wrong

http://www.mitsubishi-fto.net/ecu/ftomap1.JPG http://www.mitsubishi-fto.net/ecu/ftomap2.JPG
http://www.mitsubishi-fto.net/ecu/ftomap3.JPG http://www.mitsubishi-fto.net/ecu/ftomap4.JPG

[evofan]

ive found 4 sets of ignition maps two of which you have above, the two you have there i presume are the high octane maps for mivec engaged? the other two ive found have the timing somewhat retarded from them

[RichardB]

hmm interesting... what locations?

I wouldnt have expected that as mivec is an rpm based thing, are you sure they are not cat warm up maps

[evofan]

il post what i mean now in a second just getting the final locations

[evofan]

actually scrap that found 6:

http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/3943/ftotiming.jpg

i wouldnt say it is rpm based but id presume once mivec is engaged it would swap over to a secondary set of maps with advanced timing etc?

[evofan]

<table name="Ignition Map1" category="Timing" address="1256d" type="3D" level="4" swapxy="true" scaling="Timing_8bit">
<table name="Load" address="2ccd4" type="X Axis" elements="9" scaling="Load16_16bit"/>
<table name="RPM" address="2ccaa" type="Y Axis" elements="21" scaling="RPM4_16bit"/>
</table>

<table name="Ignition Map2" category="Timing" address="12631" type="3D" level="4" swapxy="true" scaling="Timing_8bit">
<table name="Load" address="2ccd4" type="X Axis" elements="9" scaling="Load16_16bit"/>
<table name="RPM" address="2ccaa" type="Y Axis" elements="21" scaling="RPM4_16bit"/>
</table>

<table name="Ignition Map3" category="Timing" address="126f5" type="3D" level="4" swapxy="true" scaling="Timing_8bit">
<table name="Load" address="2ccd4" type="X Axis" elements="9" scaling="Load16_16bit"/>
<table name="RPM" address="2ccaa" type="Y Axis" elements="21" scaling="RPM4_16bit"/>
</table>

<table name="Ignition Map4" category="Timing" address="127b9" type="3D" level="4" swapxy="true" scaling="Timing_8bit">
<table name="Load" address="2ccd4" type="X Axis" elements="9" scaling="Load16_16bit"/>
<table name="RPM" address="2ccaa" type="Y Axis" elements="21" scaling="RPM4_16bit"/>
</table>

<table name="Ignition Map5" category="Timing" address="1287d" type="3D" level="4" swapxy="true" scaling="Timing_8bit">
<table name="Load" address="2ccd4" type="X Axis" elements="9" scaling="Load16_16bit"/>
<table name="RPM" address="2ccaa" type="Y Axis" elements="21" scaling="RPM4_16bit"/>
</table>

<table name="Ignition Map6" category="Timing" address="12941" type="3D" level="4" swapxy="true" scaling="Timing_8bit">
<table name="Load" address="2ccd4" type="X Axis" elements="9" scaling="Load16_16bit"/>
<table name="RPM" address="2ccaa" type="Y Axis" elements="21" scaling="RPM4_16bit"/>
</table>

i havnt found the scaings yet so there just taken from a default XML ive been using

[todd]

Some might be for tiptronic version any sign of a mivec table ??

[evofan]

Some might be for tiptronic version any sign of a mivec table ??

i seen something of interest just before the ignition maps start but i couldnt be certain just yet seemed to have allot of values zero'd then in the mid section of the map it appeared to have timing values but im not sure yet gotten a head ache looking through the code :lol:

[todd]

i seen something of interest just before the ignition maps start but i couldnt be certain just yet seemed to have allot of values zero'd then in the mid section of the map it appeared to have timing values but im not sure yet gotten a head ache looking through the code :lol:

warm up ign retard probably

[evofan]

warm up ign retard probably

they seem to be avanced values, you dont happen to know if the fto has 233cc injectors?

[todd]

210cc i think not certain or possibly 240cc

[RichardB]

they seem to be avanced values, you dont happen to know if the fto has 233cc injectors?

iirc 166 or maybe 160 but not 233

[todd]

thought it was 165cc for non mivec

[evonut270]

there appears to be some sort of warmup fuel map in there also.
i dont think anyone will have any luck finding a mivec map as im pretty sure it wont have one.

[evofan]

there appears to be some sort of warmup fuel map in there also.
i dont think anyone will have any luck finding a mivec map as im pretty sure it wont have one.

how would you think it is operating the older version of mivec?

[evofan]

<table name="WarmUp Retard Map" category="Timing" address="11d8f" type="3D" level="3" swapxy="true" scaling="Enrich128_8bit">
<table name="Load" address="2ccd4" type="X Axis" elements="9" scaling="Load16_16bit"/>
<table name="RPM" address="2ccaa" type="Y Axis" elements="21" scaling="RPM4_16bit"/>
</table>

[RichardB]

It's done on a specific rpm and engine temp

[evonut270]

As per above. It will probably have a start stop RPM location.

[evonut270]

speed limit found and i think iv found the rev limit but its only 6209 not 8250. iv compared it to other 7202 roms and the location seems to be correct.

[evonut270]

been doing some digging and it seems that there may be 2 rev limit conditions but i cant find another in the rom so it may well be in the same address.

[evofan]

It's done on a specific rpm and engine temp

id still love to know how it then adjusts the timing

has anybody found the scales for ignition and rpm yet?

[evonut270]

id still love to know how it then adjusts the timing

has anybody found the scales for ignition and rpm yet?iv found some locations for RPM.still looking for load.
the mivec does not alter the timing im sure its very similar to V-tec where a solenoid pushes the cam along onto a more aggressive profile.(of course i may be completly wrong)

[evofan]

iv found some locations for RPM.still looking for load.
the mivec does not alter the timing im sure its very similar to V-tec where a solenoid pushes the cam along onto a more aggressive profile.(of course i may be completly wrong)

what locations did you come across i wouldnt mind taking a look, im still unsure on how to locate them myself

[todd]

iv found some locations for RPM.still looking for load.
the mivec does not alter the timing im sure its very similar to V-tec where a solenoid pushes the cam along onto a more aggressive profile.(of course i may be completly wrong)

100% correct oil pressure via solenoid locks a pin to join the two rockers

[evofan]

ive also thought about the possibilty of running this on on a gen 2 mivec but might be far too complicated fto's being wired for 6 injectors :(

[todd]

thats a no go

[evonut270]

100% correct oil pressure via solenoid locks a pin to join the two rockerscheers todd. know anyone with a Cyborg???:smile:

[todd]

common as muck over here :lol: ive a rs one here at the min for some tlc

[RichardB]

Looks like the rpm is at 2c492

[RichardB]

and load could be 2ca94

[RichardB]

Although my 2 timing maps look like yours, they seem to be at different locations.

[todd]

@richard yhpm

[evonut270]

common as muck over here :lol: ive a rs one here at the min for some tlc

Any of the early eve types? What sort of money are these going for?

[todd]

Any of the early eve types? What sort of money are these going for?

early decent ones are scarce

[evofan]

early decent ones are scarce

i miss my old one :bored:

[evonut270]

early decent ones are scarce

Not so fussed on decent. As long as the running gear is good the body can be fixed.

[evofan]

Not so fussed on decent. As long as the running gear is good the body can be fixed.

ive seen two go for €800 recently one of them was in a bad shape the other was fine

[RichardB]

Anyone else care to take a look at this to see if you can find the MIVEC point, should be around 5600 or the injector sizes, should be 166cc.

[evofan]

Anyone else care to take a look at this to see if you can find the MIVEC point, should be around 5600 or the injector sizes, should be 166cc.

i honestly think those 6 ignition tables i found have something to do with it, if you look at the evo 9 for example and there multiple primary high octane maps now i understand mivec in the evo 9 is completly different but why so many tables for a n/a car

[evonut270]

i honestly think those 6 ignition tables i found have something to do with it, if you look at the evo 9 for example and there multiple primary high octane maps now i understand mivec in the evo 9 is completly different but why so many tables for a n/a carif the are ignition tables they may have something to do with the MIVEC but it wont be to adjust it.

[evonut270]

Anyone else care to take a look at this to see if you can find the MIVEC point, should be around 5600 or the injector sizes, should be 166cc.injectors are 220 i think

[evofan]

injectors are 220 i think

similar to what i found too

[RichardB]

220 sounds odd, as I thought the number was normally lower than the actual cc if the injectors which is 166

[evofan]

220 sounds odd, as I thought the number was normally lower than the actual cc if the injectors which is 166

pm me the chassis number and il see if ASA tells me the injector size

[todd]

tried already it doesnt on caps

[RichardB]

I know the injector size its 166cc always has been always will be in GR's GPX's and Version R's.

[richardh]

i honestly think those 6 ignition tables i found have something to do with it, if you look at the evo 9 for example and there multiple primary high octane maps now i understand mivec in the evo 9 is completly different but why so many tables for a n/a car

Hi guys.

As this is my first post on here, I'll mix in a (brief) bit of greeting blurb here - all on-topic, of course!...

I'm a former FTO GPX owner myself, and had quite a lot of content up on the old "www.ftowa.com" website. Ancient history now, really! We had a few photos grace the front cover of some UK FTO Owners Club calendars too, back in the day. :p

I owned the FTO until late last year. I've been using EcuFlash to reflash its replacement (Lancer Ralliart) with tuned base maps. Lots to learn, lots to fine-tune. I found GeekMapped in my efforts to find more sources of info about this whole area. I just about fell off my chair when I saw FTO tables out of its ROM. Never thought that would be possible...! Nice work. I went with a UniChip interceptor for my early tuning efforts on that car, and it did pretty much nothing.

Do you have logging working too? Would be pretty awesome... especially if you could access the real-time TimingAdv being used. Perhaps it's not feasible, though - I don't think the FTO talked pure OBD protocol, despite having the correct OBD socket. I could be wrong - it's certainly been a while.


As far as those timing maps go...

I recall "MIVEC" stood (rather inaccurately) for "Mitsubishi Innovative Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control". Yep, MIVTLEC - those crazy Japanese. It's indeed possible there are MIVEC and non-MIVEC timing maps tucked away in that ROM.

And in that case, with a pair of interpolated high-octane maps and a pair of low-octane maps... you could easily have six timing maps all up.

Cheers,

- Rich

[RichardB]

Hi Rich - didnt know you had moved over to EVO's :)
I've swapped the engine out of the FTO now, no longer the 600+bhp VR4 engine now a 1000bhp EVO engine in it :) All good fun!!!
I decided to pull a few FTO ecu's appart after we found out that the later VR4 ECU's had a re-flashable 7202 chip and it turns out the later FTO's have the same chip. Hence this thread. We can also use the EVO Scan on the FTO but I've not checked to see what it can read.

[richardh]

Hi Rich - didnt know you had moved over to EVO's :)
I've swapped the engine out of the FTO now, no longer the 600+bhp VR4 engine now a 1000bhp EVO engine in it :) All good fun!!!
I decided to pull a few FTO ecu's appart after we found out that the later VR4 ECU's had a re-flashable 7202 chip and it turns out the later FTO's have the same chip. Hence this thread. We can also use the EVO Scan on the FTO but I've not checked to see what it can read.

Awesome. I did wonder why, with all the engine-swap glory, you'd be delving into the original 147kw n/a style ECU. It's because of the irresistible "retro cool" factor... and because you can! :)

It was brave of Mitsu to change the chip platform mid-run. Very interesting... maybe they just ran out of the old ECU platform.

Brilliant work - best of luck with it.

Rich

[RichardB]

ok, Ive borrowed a mates FTO and I have been able to reflash it, I also disconnected the battery for 1hr and the map remained :)

I changed the rpm limit just as a test.

We still need to find that mivec point

[richardh]

ok, Ive borrowed a mates FTO and I have been able to reflash it, I also disconnected the battery for 1hr and the map remained :)

I changed the rpm limit just as a test.

We still need to find that mivec point


Hi Richard.

MIVEC? For that, I reckon you'll need to go disassembling.

Rich

[evonut270]

does anyone happen to know what RPM the Mivec engages?

[richardh]

does anyone happen to know what RPM the Mivec engages?

5500rpm, I seem to recall.

Rich

[merlin]

Rev Limit at 10882 (6209)

Speed Limit at 10884 (184/187)

MUT at 2fad0

Injector size at 10806 (220)

Was the case part number MD355251 ?

[evofan]

making progress :)

the mivec point would be sweet tho

[richardh]

Rev Limit at 10882 (6209)

Hi Merlin.

That MUT table will be useful to FTO peeps! :)

Can I ask how the RPM limit "6209" value is interpreted?

Rich

[merlin]

^

RPM Limit 30/rpm/4*10^6

or as used in the def xmls

7500000/rpm

or did you mean how I found it?

[merlin]

MAF size is at 1080c

[merlin]

There are two 3D maps at:

12a05
12ac9

swapxy="true"
Load = 9 elements
RPM = 21 elements

And they look something like Evo9 MIVEC maps, though the scaling is unknown.
They are subtly different, like a warmup and hot maps, or hi/lo octane possibly.

[todd]

ve maps

[merlin]

they do resemble EvoX Ve maps.

[richardh]

^

RPM Limit 30/rpm/4*10^6

or as used in the def xmls

7500000/rpm

or did you mean how I found it?

I just couldn't see how 6209 would get to an 8000-ish rev limit...

Never mind, I'm probably just thick! :)

Rich

[RichardB]

I just couldn't see how 6209 would get to an 8000-ish rev limit...

Never mind, I'm probably just thick! :)

Rich

Theres 2 rev limits in there, the 6209 is until its warm when 8117.

[evofan]

looks like we are getting somewhere now, still need to find the mivec engage point

[evofan]

is it possible that the engage point is not exactly 5500rpm could it be slightly different as in 5781rpm or 5375rpm for example?

[RichardB]

yeah, we always thought the rev limit was 8200 and it turns out to be 8117, so it will be somewhere around 5400-5600 :)

[merlin]

The weather has been crap here the last few days, so not much else to do except bust code:

Closed Loop v Throttle = 11968
Closed Loop v Load =11978
12 element RPM axis = 2c206

Injector Latency = 11a76
7 element BatVolts axis = 2c3b2

Cranking IPW = 11ac4
9 element Temp axis = 2c57e

Hi-Oct Spark Map Main = 11c07
Lo-Oct Spark Map Main = 11ccb
Spark Warmup Retard Map = 11d8f
9 element Load axis = 2c756
21 element RPM axis = 2c492

Coil Dwell time = 11eb6
9 element BatVolt axis = 2c3c6

A question or two:
What sort of MAF does the FTO use?

[evofan]

9 element Load axis = 2c756


are you 100% thats right, i know it looks right but this is a non turbo car and i was under the impression 100 was the maximum load, also i doesnt use a MAF it uses a MAP sensor

[merlin]

The 160 load scaling is probably right, I have found matches for fuel and Spark.
Also, I have tuned other atmo Mitsubishi's where the load went way over 100, so I guess something with MICEC will significantly improve the volumetric efficiency.
Also, the Closed-loop load table matches the fuel map when the 160 axis is employed.
This alone is a dead givaway.

Thanks for the tip on the MAF, I was convinced it must be hot-wire, as there are no air-flow tables, or rather there are expected tables and data missing.

Using RichardB's comment on the hot rpm limit being 8117, there is a match for that at 113AF. If you have a FSM with the exact mivec rpm point, let me know and i will try and find it.
5500rpm does not seem to get a match.

[evofan]

5500rpm does not seem to get a match.

what formula did you try search for the rpm point?

[merlin]

This is a partial release for the FTO-GPX

[evofan]

This is a partial release for the FTO-GPX

looks good mate there allot of content in that :smile:

[todd]

any sign of iat scaling in there

[merlin]

Spark Trim v Air Temp
is included in the xml.

[RichardB]

should be getting my FTO back in a week of so, so I should be able to start doing more testing on this map.

[evofan]

any update on this guys?

[neilm]

do i put the xml in the evo folder ??

[evofan]

yes or you can make an fto folder both will work

[neilm]

yes or you can make an fto folder both will work

thanks why is there 10 timing maps ?

[evofan]

we haven't figured that out yet

[merlin]

gear based acceleration maps