My E3 'dyno' plots

[AndyF]

OK, not 'official' RR plots but based on my injector duty cycle and using some fancy maths to give me an estimated bhp at the flywheel.

Works out as around 360ft-lbs and 380bhp which isn't too bad at 1.65bar bearing in mind I'm still on knock counts of 0 through the majority of the map etc....

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/Andyfox21/geekmapped/dynoplot8thaugust.jpg

Andy

[Lee5]

Come on then lets see how you do it, so we can all have a go :)

Lee

[AndyF]

Estimated bhp = Injector pulse width * 0.00417 * injector size * square root of base fuel pressure

so if you have 750cc injectors running 3 bar fuel pressure and have a pulse width of 70% then you get

estimated bhp = 70 * 0.00417 * 750 * sqrt 3 = 70 * 0.00417 * 750 * 1.732 = 379.2 bhp

The factors in there assume that you've mapped it correctly in terms of fuelling etc. and are not running it mega rich to get vastly over-rated duty cycles.

It seems to tie up with quite a few different cars that have been mapped etc. in terms of matching up to dyno dynamics figures

[AndyF]

BTW, should add as well that the graph above is taken from a 3rd gear pull...

[Lee5]

English would have been better for me :lol:

I can give you base fuel pressure, injector duty and injector size is that any good ????

Lee

[AndyF]

yep

[Lee5]

Ok here you go power and torque please.

3.7 base pressure 560's

:>

[AndyF]

If those max values are correct then

Peak torque = 410ft-lbs at 3,600 rpm
Peak power = 450bhp at 7,600rpm

If you want to work em out yourself then just use this handy excel spreadsheet I've knocked up quickly...

Basically fill in the yellow boxes and the peak figures appear in red and the graph appears on the other sheet in the spreadsheet.

Andy

[AndyF]

A quick 'tweak' of the timing on the way to work this morning (another 2 degrees) yielded a bit better improvement around 4-5k

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/Andyfox21/geekmapped/rr9th.jpg

[Lee5]

A run I did last night after a few tweaks :smile:

[Kes]

Andy, do you think the top end figures are genuine or over stated due to the dropping VE? Because of course Lee's class 2 sprint car can't possibly have 450BHP on a standard Mitsi turbo ;)

[AndyF]

I thought everyone knew that Lee's turbo wasn't std Mitsi though ;) ;)

It's probably more to do with inaccuracies in reading the idc's via the logger at higher rpm's.

Andy

[Lee5]

Andy, do you think the top end figures are genuine or over stated due to the dropping VE? Because of course Lee's class 2 sprint car can't possibly have 450BHP on a standard Mitsi turbo ;)

:tt2:

I am running 2bar on the turbo with gsc2 cams plus a few other little trick bits :lol:


I thought everyone knew that Lee's turbo wasn't std Mitsi though ;) ;)

It's probably more to do with inaccuracies in reading the idc's via the logger at higher rpm's.

Andy

I bought it as a std turbo from the USA and it looks std to me.

Also my Apexi logs 25 times every second.

Lee

[AndyF]

Lee,
At 7,000rpm the injectors are firing 58 times every second ;)

[Lee5]

Lee,
At 7,000rpm the injectors are firing 58 times every second ;)

Cool, I didn't know if 25 times was fast or not, but 58 times is just mad :eek:

[Lee5]

Just had a look at another log with less things selected and it was logging at 37 times a second, is that any good ???

Lee

[Kes]

I bought it as a std turbo from the USA

If it's from the US, that explains everything, 450 at the wheels it is then :lol:

[Lee5]

If it's from the US, that explains everything, 450 at the wheels it is then :lol:

:lol:

I wish, I would say the above power plot is close give and take 5%.

The car is not slow, but not mega fast 0-60 on gps was 3.82 secs.

But will be good to see how close it is as I will be logging a car soon that will be going on the rollers at the end of the month and I will post up both graphs, Andys plot and the dyno dynamics graph and see how far out it is :)

Lee

[Leecavturbo]

lee can you do a 50-70 in fourth gps timed?
i'd like to see :>

[Lee5]

lee can you do a 50-70 in fourth gps timed?
i'd like to see :>

I will have to get a v-box as that time was done with a MLR unit, leave it with me and I will see what I can sort.

Lee

[anttist]

I have a datalog from dyno pull:

Injector size 560 cc, duty cycle 90, AFR was 11.0 flat.

Dyno displayed 338 at the fly.
Calculated from the above 364 at the fly.
If we correct AFR to 12, duty cycle would be 82.5 (if I calculated correctly)
This would give 334 at the fly

[Lee5]

I have a datalog from dyno pull:

Injector size 560 cc, duty cycle 90, AFR was 11.0 flat.

Dyno displayed 338 at the fly.
Calculated from the above 364 at the fly.
If we correct AFR to 12, duty cycle would be 82.5 (if I calculated correctly)
This would give 334 at the fly

Here is my AFR's from the same log as I took the duty's from :smile:

[Leecavturbo]

what are the scales of above lee?
1 is rpm but the other?

[Lee5]

what are the scales of above lee?
1 is rpm but the other?

Boost as I run a map sensor, so everything above 10000, is in boost so 27000 is around 1.7 bar but I need to rescale it as it runs just under 2bar.

Lee

[AndyF]

A few more tweaks on the way to work this morning and it's looking just a little bit better once more :lol:

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/Andyfox21/geekmapped/rr19th.jpg

[Lee5]

Looking good Andy, what sort of duty's and timing you running now as the torque looks very nice :)

[AndyF]

Peak duty on the 750's is around 70% or thereabouts but it's flatlined at that from around 5k onwards. This is also just running on Tescos 99 fuel rather than the E85 that I'll be doing eventually.

Timing wise it's running around 11 deg from 4-5k then 10 from 5-6k then back towards 12 after that.

But again though, this still has 0 knock before 6k and even then only counts of 2 so there is still more to get from it.

Boost is now up to 1.75 as well :D

The one thing I will say is that even if the absolute numbers in the calculator aren't correct, at least you can see if what you've done has made a difference in the engine output by examining the differences between 2 plots etc.

Andy

[Lee5]

The timing sounds very close to mine, I know what you are saying about the calculator, its a guide/aid.

Lee

[Lee5]

Anyone else going to have a go at Andy's Power calc ?????

I know a lot of you log your cars, so come on have a play and post up your results !!!!!

Lee

[Kes]

When I get some time, I will log mine, probably not till next week though now. Mine runs a lot less timing, probably due to Jun cams and high compression so will be interesting to compare. I only have a standard E6 turbo on there at the moment, for the same boost level the load is approx 20 - 30 lower than the green I had on before from the few quick logs I have done to check it's safe.

Fair play Lee, that's good power from a stock turbo, I assume it's an Evo 9 turbo of some description?

[Lee5]

HI Kes,

The spec of my engine is 2.0 forged fully balanced and poilished, 9.1 comp ratio, polished head and inlet and exhaust gsc 2's uprated fuel rail, sard fpr.

Now the turbo is a stock 9 unit but I got it from the USA from the evoM forum as it was cheaper than what people wanted on the MLR. I dont know if the USA turbo's are any different but it does go very well :)

I am also going to get some bigger injectors soon and will do a logs with them fitted to see if it makes any difference to the power calc sums.


Lee

[Lee5]

Here is my timing map Andy, very close to yours???

[Leecavturbo]

Anyone else going to have a go at Andy's Power calc ?????

I know a lot of you log your cars, so come on have a play and post up your results !!!!!

Lee

i like what they have done on evom with a power calc.
they have set the "evom" comparator so that regardless of dyno make / set up, sea levels and ambients etc so you can directly compare your cars performance almost forgetting pub figures and just take it as comparison on a like for like spec performances.
i'd prefer our pub bragging rights changed from a peak figure to an average figure. say from 3k to 7k at say 250rpm increments?
but i'd also like to know what the performance difference would be from a low rpm in just 1 gear i.e
a car that has 600bhp peak but its average is 339
compared to a 400bhp peak but average power is 337
?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/leesturbo/avpower.jpg

[AndyF]

lee can you do a 50-70 in fourth gps timed?
i'd like to see :>Mine is around 2.8 seconds but that's based off calculation using tyre sizes, gear ratios and my datalogs and not gps recorded

In 3rd gear 50-70 is around 1.8 though!

Andy

[AndyF]

and my 'average' power between 3-6k in 4th is 291.4 bhp

[AndyF]

Here is my timing map Andy, very close to yours???Does look quite similar indeed Lee although I haven't got it with me to check.

[Leecavturbo]

Mine is around 2.8 seconds but that's based off calculation using tyre sizes, gear ratios and my datalogs and not gps recorded

In 3rd gear 50-70 is around 1.8 though!

Andy

sounds good. i got my 3rd gear 50-70 down from 2.2 to 2.1 with a little fettling

[AndyF]

But that's because yours is a lardy arse later Evo ;)

[Lee5]

Mine is around 2.8 seconds but that's based off calculation using tyre sizes, gear ratios and my datalogs and not gps recorded

In 3rd gear 50-70 is around 1.8 though!

Andy


I just looked at a 3rd gear pull not gps but worked from the ecu and crossed with my gps speed thing as i cant log from it :smile:

50-70 1.61 seconds.

Lee

[Leecavturbo]

But that's because yours is a lardy arse later Evo ;)

your not wrong 1420kg no driver :lol::mad:

[AndyF]

Mine was 1170 with no driver but 3/4 tank of fuel and spare wheel etc. at the 30-130 :D

[Lee5]

Mine was 1170 with no driver but 3/4 tank of fuel and spare wheel etc. at the 30-130 :D

Very close to my old evo 1 that Andy, think mine was 1150 iirc.

The 5 was 1360 with a full tank.

Lee

[AndyF]

And just to prove that it doesn't always work :lol:

Todays logs had another 1/2 degrees of timing in around spool and before 5.5k but the power/torque remained similar to before however I was getting knock counts of up to 8 now so it'll be back onto the previous map now

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/Andyfox21/geekmapped/rr20th.jpg

[AndyF]

No more logs from me for a while now :crying: :(

It would appear that I've done some damage at some point over the last few days.

Got a bad knocking sound from the engine now...

Still got good compression on all 4 cylinders and they all seem to be in the correct positions in the bores. Still got good oil pressure as well so it's time to get the sump off and have a look/see next week to see if there is anything obviously wrong!!!

Hopefully it's not too serious and I might be able to get away with a new set of rods/pistons and rebuild it.

Andy

[anttist]

Sorry to hear that, maybe rod bearing? :(

Which would you think is more realiable to compare your car before and after modifications: this method or calculating from rpm, timestamp, gearing, weight etc.

I have been using Virtual Dyno Room from evolutionm.net which uses the rpm and some constants to calculate torque/power. It seems that you need to repeat the test exactly in the same conditions to get reliable results.

On the other hand comparing AFR changes with duty-cycle is not going to give correct answers.

[AndyF]

Piccie of my cracked crank :( :(

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/Andyfox21/P8267887.jpg

[AndyF]

and a little video to go with it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyN0HBcpKRU

:eek:

[palmeros]

iv got an fq 360mr crank for u, if it fits? pm me if u want it. im not goin to be using it only the pistons and rods if they fit that is lol..

[Petbeemer]

We are Nitrating crank's now Andy, seeing as yours has done that

[GrayW]

Nitriding is essentially a surface treatment, and its effect extends to a finite distance below the surface. It's not going to stop a crank shearing/cracking only increase hardness of a given surface.